Frozen Bubble Tournament 2010
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Discuss Rules - FB Tourment 2010

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Post by zero Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:42 pm

When we create & define RULES they will be listed in the Agenda. Untill that please propose any idea, thought or intuition AND discuss it here :

To make a start I post a chaotic option & hope you will discuss it soon

- every one on the list join a server
- one open a game, those who join hv luck
- next one .....

!!!! NO WAY - we back in the stone age !!!!


Last edited by zero on Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:24 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Post by Yowie Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:21 pm

Or we can make groups in advance - for example each one will take place at different time(date) and everyone sign up in one that suits him(her).

And then we should define how will people advance to next rounds.
My idea: Group(5 people) will play game with 5 rounds and winner advances. Remaining 4 players play again - winner advances. ... Until three people advance and 2 lose.

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Post by sOmbre Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:20 pm

I like yowie proposition. It handle quite well the luck since number of player decrease till the third is chose. Then we have a 3 players match , witch is to my point of view the best number of player for a match. So the tournament tree have some 5 players match leaf witch make it easier to organize. we can consider winners of the 3 player match to go on final. Witch should be duel then : )
that would makes the number of player in match decrease, witch is cool ; )
result could be write here.

PS. player in tournament could have a tag so they can recognize each other so match could happen by seeing 5 player having the tag
tag could be a a capital letter ; ) ... not to have a char since we r limited
waiting ur reaction
Shocked
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Post by Guest Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:08 pm

sur la journée du dimanche 31 janvier , on pourrait faire un planning d'heures pour ceux et celles qui sont plus du matin, ou de l'après-midi, ou du soir, les joueurs pourraient donc se placer sur un créneau d'horaires qui lui convient le mieux, en considérant qu'il ne doit pas y avoir trop de créneaux si l'on veut obtenir des groupes de joueurs complets, je pense qu'avec cinq créneaux horaires , il serait possible pour tout le monde d'avoir la disponibilité nécessaire pour jouer
i write in french olalaaaaa oups! sOmbre help for the translator

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Post by Dee Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:14 am

I agree on 5 player groups. And i suggest different date/time for each group.
How about counting the victories and let the ones with the most victories advance?
I mean, let's imagine two different groups :
Group 1 members : A,B,C,D,E
A : 5 victories
B : 4 victories
C : 4 victories
D : 1 victory
E : 1 victory

Group 2 members : F,G,H,I,J
F: 5 victories
G: 1 victory
H: 0 victory
I: 1 victory
J: 1 victory

Is it fair for B and C to be eliminated?
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Post by dmbasso Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:24 am

I agree with Dee. Perhaps the best would be for every player to have 3 matches in 3 different random groups. All the victories would be summed up to give the player's rank. From the ordered list of player's ranks we pick the median (e.g. element 15 of 30 entries, or 3 of 7, or 1 of 3) and all players bellow that rank are declassified (out of the tournament). Rinse and repeat until we have a sole winner. Smile

So, lets say our semi-final rounds would be composed of 4 players (A..D), so no random grouping is possible, and the results are:
A,B,C,D
5,4,3,2
1,2,3,5
4,2,5,2
Totals: 10,8,11,9
Ranking: (C,11), (A,10), (D,9), (B,8 )
Median: (A,10)... D and B out of tournament

The finals would be C and A. If both were tied after 3 matches, the median would eliminate no one, and more 3 matches would be necessary.

The only drawback of this method that I can identify is the need for a lot of book-keeping, but that can be automated. Does anyone see any issue with this method?
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Post by zero Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:37 am

well, well - much thanks to all that take care of rules of this event
and also thanks to your time !!!

---> soon I will write a resume and put it on the board


Last edited by admin_FB_tournament on Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by zero Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:21 am

Yowie : nice idea to decrease number of players to be eleminated !!!
only one thing disturb me : when play 1st round in a group 5 ppl * 5 rounds and the last one will be eleminated at his first try - thats a shame (he/she can play only 5 matches then out)

sOmbre : nice idea to set a letter on players e.g. Azero : zero play group A !!!
only one thing disturb me : 3 players game then duel ---> too short all that
tournament is over faster than begin.

Sylvie : jesteś zabawna hehe
please write in english, ah sOnmbre too ---> use easy english for better understand (some of us dont know EN well

dee : nice idea to counting victories & the one with the most victories advance !!!
only one thing disturb me : right, player B & C should advance too, so ...

dmbasso : nice idea to play 3 matches in 3 different random groups !!!
only one thing disturb me : who define the random group ? and who write all the random results to a list - its a lot of work for even 20 participants ...

zero : soon I will write my option which use pre-qualify-groups, ... , final group and different servers to play to better handle with luck which is given by kb/s

besides I like to your ideas !!! and we should use all the best from each one to create rules

I think big improvement is :
- letter before nick : A for group A ---> e.g. Azero even if dmbasso & ladyGala will touch the border
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Post by dmbasso Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

"who define the random group ?"

For those who understand Python:
Code:
group = random.sample(players, 5)
Smile

Well, as I said, the task is just begging for automation. The way I devised is very simple to implement, and with the collaboration of everybody submitting the scores by mail or web form (the more the better, to avoid mistakes), could return the results instantaneously by mail or web to everyone.

Of course we should test the system beforehand, but I think it would be worth the effort.
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Post by Yowie Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:27 pm

I am not sure if you understood me correctly. My idea was that from 5 players group will advance 3 people:
round 1: A:5, B:1, C:2, D:0, E:1 - so A advances
round 2: B:2, C:3, D:1, E:5 - E is going further
round 3: C:5, B:1, D:1 - last to advance is C (i am sorry B,D Wink )
Next round: A,E,C Sad losers: B,D Sad

Remainig players (B,C,D,E) also could change groups so they dont play with same people, but if groups are made equal it wont be necessary.

How to make part between base groups and final depends how many players will be playing so no ideas yet

I dont think final match should be duel because it is somtehing different than 5 people match, but it could be some points system - for example first one to achieve 5 wins of games(round - not single matches) is winner.

About tags: they should be behind nick - nick[tag] or nick_tag - we dont want deformed names Wink

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Post by zero Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:11 pm

ye, I did. But it means that player D which has 0 victories can play only 5 matches !!! ----> then OUT forever ...

but I think this way of thinking we can use in our RULES ... of course not for all stages but maybe for pre-qualify group or later in the semi-finals !!!!
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Post by zero Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:45 pm

dmbasso wrote:"who define the random group ?"

For those who understand Python:
Code:
group = random.sample(players, 5)
Smile

Well, as I said, the task is just begging for automation. The way I devised is very simple to implement, and with the collaboration of everybody submitting the scores by mail or web form (the more the better, to avoid mistakes), could return the results instantaneously by mail or web to everyone.

Of course we should test the system beforehand, but I think it would be worth the effort.

sorry, but I dont think I can implement it here : its a FREE FORUM with a minimal of control
and I dont think that many members will post the results via E-mail to others ....

let us do it by a very simply way this time - for future we can include automated scripts, what do you think ?
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Post by jacek Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:55 am

you can use this site for making "neutral" random groups. just number list of participant, and this page will give you ready groups...

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Post by zero Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:20 pm

Yowie, im sorry, u right I misunderstood !!!

U ment that from 5 players group winner advance -then- 4 players left & from that group winner advance -then- so on ... ok I got it

But I see 1 thing : winner of 5ppl group will play 5 matches, then advance , then ... wait a long time

e.g. winner no. 2 or no. 3 will have more practise which I think can be an advantage

Besides, we can mix different ideas in different stages of the tournament, what u think ? I mean what u all think ?
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Post by KuriOSone Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:02 pm

just a pair of questions:

1.when rules are finally decided, could you create a closed "RULES TOPIC"?
2. what about the options (reaction and others) of the game?

thanks
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Post by zero Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:25 pm

answers :

1 - When we create & define RULES they will be listed in the Agenda (that TOPIC is closed already !!!)
2 - same

but you hit an important point : chain reaction and e.g. targetting !!!!


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Post by dmbasso Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:54 pm

I think we may have different kinds of tournaments in the future, but perhaps in the beginning we should focus only on the organizational aspects. I think the most common options should be used: 5 victories, no targetting, chain reaction on.

Btw, I really enjoyed playing team-wise, with targetting enabled. But then we should define teams, and the tournament dynamics gets a little bit more complex.
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Post by KuriOSone Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:23 pm

i know it's a bit OT, btw:
where can i find a tutorial about targetting use? i cannot use this option, and for this reason i usually keep it disabled when i start a game.. Wink
thx
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Post by dmbasso Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:47 pm

Targeting is very simple: each player has a function key associated with him, that is shown in the corner of his play area (F1, F2, F3, F4). When you press the key once, it will send every ball in excess of 3 you have eliminated (the so called 'malus'). When you press it again, it disables the targeting, i.e. distributes the malus equally among every enemy.

Targeting only makes sense when playing team-wise. I usually ignore, or at most reciprocate, when someone is targeting me in a normal (individual) match. For targeting to be effective, it has to be coordinated with more players, as in a team match.
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Post by zero Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:22 pm

Also agree : we can organise a tournament where we play with targetting, but it should be, as you said, coordinated in a team.
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Post by KuriOSone Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:39 pm

thanks for your answer, dmbasso
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Post by Yowie Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:03 am

And also every participating player should have new version of fb (version that enables continue play when somebody leaves). And it would be nice to define what to do when from some reason game is interrupted in the middle of the match or somebody leaves for technical reasons.
I suggest that if somebody leaves and game continues he lost that match but he can continue in next one.
And if game is interrupted then rematch (it may be unfair for leading player).

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Post by dmbasso Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:42 am

I agree with Yowie, players that get disconnected should not interrupt the match. As the servers will be allocated in a random way, the problem will be at least distributed, hindering everybody more or less equally. Actually, we from South America and people from Asia should have more problems because of high latency, but I'm ok with that.

I also vote for allowing only Frozen Bubble 2.2 players.
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Post by KuriOSone Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:21 am

[other OT] dmbasso, an other question about targetting:can see if and who is targetting me?

an other question concerning the nickname: today i installed also ubuntu kk, and its frozen-bubble doesn't allow me to keep my full nickname (KuriOSone), and it just allow KuriOSon: what it depend on? and how can i fix it? i tryed launching frozen-bubble --my-nick KuriOSone from a terminal; writing the irc command /nick KuriOSone in the chat; and editing the file ~/.frozen-bubble/rc, but i had always the same result... i hope it will be not a problem for the contest..
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Post by Yowie Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:28 am

You will see crying penguins at the bottom of screen with color of player who is targetting you
I also had problem with my nick that was too long - 8 chars, i solved it by changing nick Wink
I may be wrong but i think i saw someone with longer nick than 8 chars so i dont really know why is this problem with it

P.S.: I would also like to play some other tournament with teams, but i do not have any one to team up with me yet. :/

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