Re: Discuss Rules - FB Tourment 2010

[Yowie]

You will see crying penguins at the bottom of screen with color of player who is targetting you
I also had problem with my nick that was too long - 8 chars, i solved it by changing nick
I may be wrong but i think i saw someone with longer nick than 8 chars so i dont really know why is this problem with it

P.S.: I would also like to play some other tournament with teams, but i do not have any one to team up with me yet. :/

[zero]

it would match all of us to hv 2.2 but its not a must at now - we dont want to shorten our list to 15 players dont we ?

---

I suggest that if somebody leaves and game continues he lost that match but he can continue in next one.

maybe remember result, write it down on paper and restart round from that moment : e.g.
A - 0
B - 2
C - 3
D - 0
E - 2
if any player for any reason leave : restart game and play so long that 1 win :
A - need 5 victories
B - need 3 ...
C - need 2 ...
D - need 5 ...
E - need 3 ...

that way will eleminate server side or user side problems ...

[KuriOSone]

I'd like to propose you this tournament scheme.

I supposed 5 groups (A-E) each one with 5 players. Each group plays 3 round. The worst of each group will be excluded from the next round.

	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	winner
A	5	4	3	1	Each group lose 1 player in the initials 2
B	5	4	3	1	rounds. 3 peoples plays the 3rd round.
C	5	4	3	1	The winner of each group go to the final.
D	5	4	3	1
E	5	4	3	1
				5	( the final match's group )
Final	5	4	3	1	Lasts 3 rounds.

[Yowie]

i dont know who has new and old version, but i think that if somebody has an old version it should not be problem to install new for him, just make them aware of it so they have time to install it.

i think remembering results for match is not very comfortable so we should use it only in case of need, i still think that if only one player leaves match and others continue its his problem and others should continue, he can compensate in other rounds. That remebering can take place when all players are disconnected.

Kuriosone: i dont like that scheme because if there are two strong players in one group only one of them can get to the finale and if there is group with weaker players one weaker can get to finale instead that strong player. and players in group are playing only with same people each round.

[KuriOSone]

Kuriosone: i dont like that scheme because if there are two strong players in one group only one of them can get to the finale and if there is group with weaker players one weaker can get to finale instead that strong player. and players in group are playing only with same people each round.

well my idea was: we've to chose the stronger of each group...
1. for this reason i supposed we could play with the same group more then one time (because after a match it's difficult to know who's the stronger of the group);
2. i also considered the eventuality of a weaker who pass the turn: however he's the best of his group, and so why not?

Anyway, i don't mean that this is the better way: i just suggested an idea.

[dmbasso]

People,

I made a simulation of a tournament following the rules I proposed. Please don't be offended by the results, they are completely random! (Don't expect me to be eliminated on the first round )

I think the results show pretty good dynamics, allowing a competitive and fair tournament. Considering matches of 20 minutes plus 10 minutes of organization and the current number of players, we reach a total of 6 hours for the event.

Simulated results:
<pre>
Round 1
Players: ceder, Dee, dmbasso, Elmo, Fiona, gael, idiot, igrock, jacek, joOf, kenloo, KuriOSone, Lady_Gala, lilly, loic, markux, pAt, Railroad, silke, sOmbre, sylvie, wip, Yowie
Match 1
Group 1
pAt 5 victories
idiot 1 victory
kenloo 1 ...
gael 0 ...
sylvie 4
Group 2
Yowie 5
loic 0
Lady_Gala 4
dmbasso 3
ceder 4
Group 3
Fiona 5
Dee 2
jacek 0
KuriOSone 3
wip 3
Group 4
sOmbre 5
joOf 3
lilly 3
markux 4
Group 5
Elmo 5
igrock 1
Railroad 0
silke 0
Match 2
Group 1
sOmbre 5
kenloo 4
KuriOSone 3
sylvie 1
dmbasso 0
Group 2
joOf 5
Elmo 0
wip 4
loic 1
Yowie 0
Group 3
Lady_Gala 5
pAt 2
igrock 4
jacek 0
silke 3
Group 4
idiot 5
Dee 0
markux 2
ceder 1
Group 5
Fiona 5
gael 2
lilly 2
Railroad 2
Match 3
Group 1
sOmbre 5
gael 2
ceder 2
silke 2
kenloo 4
Group 2
Elmo 5
Railroad 2
lilly 0
Fiona 3
joOf 1
Group 3
igrock 5
loic 0
Lady_Gala 4
wip 0
markux 1
Group 4
sylvie 5
Dee 2
jacek 3
dmbasso 0
Group 5
idiot 5
KuriOSone 2
pAt 2
Yowie 1
Totals: [(sOmbre, 15), (Lady_Gala, 13), (Fiona, 13), (idiot, 11), (sylvie, 10), (Elmo, 10), (igrock, 10), (joOf, 9), (kenloo, 9), (pAt, 9), (KuriOSone, , (markux, 7), (wip, 7), (ceder, 7), (Yowie, 6), (silke, 5), (lilly, 5), (Dee, 4), (gael, 4), (Railroad, 4), (jacek, 3), (dmbasso, 3), (loic, 1)]
Cut mark 8 - eliminated: markux wip ceder Yowie silke lilly Dee gael Railroad jacek dmbasso loic


Round 2
Players: Elmo, Fiona, idiot, igrock, joOf, kenloo, KuriOSone, Lady_Gala, pAt, sOmbre, sylvie
Match 1
Group 1
KuriOSone 5
pAt 4
sOmbre 0
igrock 3
Lady_Gala 2
Group 2
kenloo 5
Elmo 1
sylvie 0
Group 3
Fiona 5
idiot 2
joOf 3
Match 2
Group 1
sOmbre 5
joOf 2
KuriOSone 4
Elmo 0
igrock 2
Group 2
Lady_Gala 5
Fiona 3
sylvie 2
Group 3
idiot 5
kenloo 3
pAt 0
Match 3
Group 1
sOmbre 5
kenloo 4
Elmo 0
sylvie 2
pAt 2
Group 2
igrock 5
idiot 2
Fiona 2
Group 3
joOf 5
KuriOSone 1
Lady_Gala 1
[(kenloo, 12), (joOf, 10), (KuriOSone, 10), (Fiona, 10), (sOmbre, 10), (igrock, 10), (idiot, 9), (Lady_Gala, , (pAt, 6), (sylvie, 4), (Elmo, 1)]
Cut mark 10 - eliminated: idiot Lady_Gala pAt sylvie Elmo


Round 3
Players: Fiona, igrock, joOf, kenloo, KuriOSone, sOmbre
Match 1
Group 1
KuriOSone 5
kenloo 0
Fiona 1
Group 2
igrock 5
joOf 3
sOmbre 1
Match 2
Group 1
KuriOSone 5
sOmbre 1
kenloo 4
Group 2
Fiona 5
igrock 4
joOf 1
Match 3
Group 1
igrock 5
Fiona 0
kenloo 3
Group 2
joOf 5
KuriOSone 4
sOmbre 1
[(KuriOSone, 14), (igrock, 14), (joOf, 9), (kenloo, 7), (Fiona, 6), (sOmbre, 3)]
Cut mark 9 - eliminated: kenloo Fiona sOmbre


Round 4
Players: igrock, joOf, KuriOSone
Match 1
Group 1
joOf 5
igrock 2
KuriOSone 0
Match 2
Group 1
joOf 5
igrock 3
KuriOSone 0
Match 3
Group 1
joOf 5
igrock 2
KuriOSone 1
[(joOf, 15), (igrock, 7), (KuriOSone, 1)]
Cut mark 15 - eliminated: igrock KuriOSone

Tournament winner: joOf
</pre>

[KuriOSone]

congratulation for your great will I couldn't imagine to produce anything similar.

And thanks because looking at the simulation i understood a bit better the tournament's schema proposed by admin_FB_tournament in the Agenda

[zero]

nice simulation !!! only you forgot me in that list

And thanks because looking at the simulation i understood a bit better the tournament's schema proposed by admin_FB_tournament in the Agenda

KuriOSone, thats not a simulation of this "temporary" schema in the agenda i'd posted - its a simulation of proposed rules by dmbasso

Also I do this proposed Schema, Date, Rules, etc. - to make a start, to show something we can discuss - it works

[KuriOSone]

then i think the one u posted is not clear for me...
so, how does it works the proposed schema?

[dmbasso]

Ok, I finished my prototype Frozen Bubble Tournament server. If you want to test it, I'll let it running for registering players and tournament inscriptions until around 2010-01-23 17:00 UTC. The interface usability is not ideal, but at least we have something working...

Remember, it is still in alpha stage. If it bites you, don't come crying to me!
But every bug report is welcome.

http://asteca.yi.org:8080

More instructions will come later... now I'm going to sleep!

[zero]

just a pair of questions:

1.when rules are finally decided, could you create a closed "RULES TOPIC"?
2. what about the options (reaction and others) of the game?

thanks

please refer to my post before : by admin on Thu 21 Jan 2010 - 18:25 : here

then i think the one u posted is not clear for me...
so, how does it works the proposed schema?

please refer to my post before : by admin on Tue 19 Jan 2010 - 0:37 : here

[zero]

hej, u throw a big stone of work here, congratulation. Question :
1 - Why some groups has 5 and others 4 players ?
2 - now we 27 players so it means min. 6 groups, it work with this ?
3 - How is Cutmark defined ?

Also the prototype I dont understand - I logged on this site and now ?

[dmbasso]

hej, u throw a big stone of work here, congratulation.

Thanx. That's the power of procrastination.

1 - Why some groups has 5 and others 4 players ?

The system tries to distribute the player count evenly. Think about a round in which only 6 players remained - we can't have a group of 5 and a "group" of 1, so the system creates two groups of 3.

now we 27 players so it means min. 6 groups, it work with this ?

4 groups of 5, 1 group of 4 and 1 group of 3.

How is Cutmark defined ?

The system picks the median of the sum of victories. Let's say we have the ordered collection {15, 13, 13, 10}: the length is 4, so the median is the second element (13 victories). Everybody with less than 13 victories is eliminated - in this case, only the last one, so the next round would have 3 participants.

Also the prototype I dont understand - I logged on this site and now ?

Now you should wait until every player confirmed his/her participation. Then the first match would be arranged, with the random groups assigned.

[Yowie]

Another idea for tournament system of play. At the beginning 5 group of 5 players. In each group are playing rounds until 1 player has 5 victories. He advances. Remaining players continue to play until other reaches 5 victories and so on until there are 3 advancing players.

In next round there are three groups with equaly shuffled players depending on position from 1st round. Again as in first round first player in each group to achieve 5 victories advances to finale. Others continue until they can decide their position in group. Last one in group is elimiated, so there are 9 players remainig.

These 9 players are formed in two groups from witch there are 2 winners that advance to final.

This is how it could look
groups labeled with capitals and in ( , , , ) are listed players inside the group
A1 - means that it is winner of group A...

A - F(A1, B3, C2, D1, E3) - I(F2, G3, G4, H2) - Final (F1, G1, H1, I1, J1)
B - G(A2, B1, C3, D3, E1) - J(F3, F4, G2, H3, H4)
C - H(A3, B2, C1, D2, E2) -
D -
E -

[dmbasso]

Just a little update, the call for participations for the test tournament has been extended to 18h UTC. We currently have 8 players.

http://asteca.yi.org:8080

------
Edit:

Ok, now it is 18h15 UTC, so I closed the call. We have 9 players for the first round. The first match has these two groups:
Group 1 (plays @ Bubla): yowie, KuriOSone, etf, zero
Group 2 (plays @ Addiction):dmbasso, korisnik, neusa, Railroad, jacek

As this is just a test, we don't have a real hard deadline, and each group should auto-organize the match. Neusa, Jacek and I have already been playing in Addiction this afternoon, and I'll register the match with the most participants we can get up to 01:00 UTC. Lets see how this works out...

[dmbasso]

Btw, for those who got in the test tournament, feel free to submit fake results until you get the real ones, to feel how the system works.

For those who couldn't get in this test tournament in time, but would like to test it out, I'll create a second test tournament tomorrow.

[dmbasso]

Group 2 has played, nice match guys and girl! Results were
dmbasso - 5
railroad - 3
jacek - 2
neusa - 1
korisnik - 0

Now we are waiting for the results of Group 1 to go to the next match.

Realtime update: yowie and kuriosone are playing right now on gardsvierzon for the Group 1 results.

[KuriOSone]

i invite the 1st group players to pm to date a game..
i'll be online each night after 20pm.

[zero]

we should begin to resume all our ideas - it begun to be full of it ...
btw

[zero]

then i think the one u posted is not clear for me...
so, how does it works the proposed schema?

MY SYSTEM:

PLAYER DEFINITION

Groupleader :
- we define 6 players who we think they best
- in alphabetical mode each of those will join their own group
- that system eleminate that 6 very good players start at beginning in one group
- Groupleaders take care of its group

in alphabetical A-Z mode : I propose :

List 1 (Groupleaders)

Group A - loic
Group B - markux
Group C - idiot
Group D - silke
Group E - wip
Group F - yowie

List 2(in alphabetical A-Z mode)

f5
Fi
gael
joof
sOmbre
zero

List 3(in alphabetical A-Z mode)

ceder
dee
dmbasso
elmo
etf
igrock
jacek
ken
korisnik
Kuriosone
lady gala
lilly
pAt
railroad
sylvie

others 3 players needed to have 30 players !!!

Now in alphabetical A-Z mode all join their group !!
example : Fi join B group, jacek join A group, sylvie join C group, so on ...



PRE QUALIFY GROUPS

6 groups x 3 games x 3 servers = each group plays 9 games or
6 groups x 2 games x 3 servers = each group plays 6 games or
6 groups x 3 games x 2 servers = each group plays 6 games

example
- group A : 5 players x 2 games x 3 servers = group A plays 6 games
- after each game Groupleader write results on paper
- after 2 games on 3 servers Groupleader post results on forum for group A
(a place for that I will prepare soon)

results example - group A :
victories of all games in group will be summed

A - 24
B - 21
C - 15
D - 15
E - 10

first 3 players advance : but if C & D same points , here 15 then they play 1 duel on last server the group played
the group or Groupleader decide in which way they play : maybe 1 duel is ok !!!

After all games done : 18 winners

!!! Attention !!!

I think that we should give chance for lucky lossers. That means :
12 players are loosers of their groups :
- count victories of them
L1 - 20
L2 - 16
L3 - 15
L4 - 15
L5 - 14
so on ...

- every 3rd will join group L_C, every 2nd will join group L_B, others group L_A
- these 3 groups with its 4 players in it, play 1 game to 5 victories
- winner of each group meet in group L_0 and play 1 game to 5 victories
- winner of group L_0 advance
- others 2 play again and the winner advance also

at the end we have 18 players and 2 lucky lossers = 20 players

next round, it should be 4 groups with 5 players, I plan & explain if u like PRE ... )

[KuriOSone]

Ok, now maybe i understood, and it sounds good. However i want offer you a couple of suggestions:

PRE QUALIFY GROUPS

results example - group A :
victories of all games in group will be summed

A - 24
B - 21
C - 15
D - 15
E - 10

first 3 players advance : but if C & D same points , here 15 then they play 1 duel on last server the group played
the group or Groupleader decide in which way they play : maybe 1 duel is ok !!!

I think it could be better if whe duel mode is established since before the begin of tournament to make it equal for each group...

After all games done : 18 winners

- every 3rd will join group L_C, every 2nd will join group L_B, others group L_A
- these 3 groups with its 4 players in it, play 1 game to 5 victories
- winner of each group meet in group L_0 and play 1 game to 5 victories
- winner of group L_0 advance
- others 2 play again and the winner advance also

i think it will take a lot of time to have the two lucky losers.. i suggest to choose the bests between the 12 losers:

i.e.:

L1			20					L1 and L2 are Lucky Loser!
L2			19					if L2 and L3 (or more) have the same score,
L3			19					they can play a duel game.
L4			17
L5			...
L6			...
L12			10

at the end we have 18 players and 2 lucky lossers = 20 players

next round, it should be 4 groups with 5 players, I plan & explain if u like PRE ... )

[dmbasso]

I'll try to turn the math of the method I proposed a little more simple to be understood. Perhaps I am commiting a mistake and not noticing, so please point me out anything you think is wrong.

The method is based on ranking by victories, so to simplify, lets say we have 6 awesome players (A1..A6) and 24 newby players (Nn). The ranking would then probably be (regardless of which groups):
[A1:V1, ..., A6:V6, N1:V7, ..., N9:V15, ..., N24, V30]

For the first round, it is completely irrelevant the number of victories of the awesome players, because who will determine the cut mark is player N9, who just needs to be better than, at most, 15 newby players.

The good think about it is that it works for whichever number of players. And the eliminated players could be automatically allocated in a "2nd division" tournament.

[zero]

Ok, now maybe i understood, and it sounds good. However i want offer you a couple of suggestions:

PRE QUALIFY GROUPS

results example - group A :
victories of all games in group will be summed

A - 24
B - 21
C - 15
D - 15
E - 10

first 3 players advance : but if C & D same points , here 15 then they play 1 duel on last server the group played
the group or Groupleader decide in which way they play : maybe 1 duel is ok !!!

I think it could be better if whe duel mode is established since before the begin of tournament to make it equal for each group...

I agree, u right. Lets establish this : When C & D same points : duel game 5 victories ----> winner advance. If more than 2 players same points : a game 5 victories ----> winner advance.

After all games done : 18 winners

- every 3rd will join group L_C, every 2nd will join group L_B, others group L_A
- these 3 groups with its 4 players in it, play 1 game to 5 victories
- winner of each group meet in group L_0 and play 1 game to 5 victories
- winner of group L_0 advance
- others 2 play again and the winner advance also

i think it will take a lot of time to have the two lucky losers.. i suggest to choose the bests between the 12 losers:

i.e.:

L1			20					L1 and L2 are Lucky Loser!
L2			19					if L2 and L3 (or more) have the same score,
L3			19					they can play a duel game.
L4			17
L5			...
L6			...
L12			10

I can also agree with that. Lets establish this :
L1 (Loser1) advanced due to his most victories. When L2 & L3 same points : play game 5 victories ----> winner advance. If more than 2 players same points : a game 5 victories ----> winner advance.

So at the end we have 18 players and 2 lucky lossers = 20 players but in faster way.

at the end we have 18 players and 2 lucky lossers = 20 players

next round, it should be 4 groups with 5 players, I plan & explain if u like PRE ... )

[zero]

daniel : have problems to implement your test tournament here !!! could you help
link : https://fb2010.forum.st/portal.htm

also colors not matching the forum ...

[dmbasso]

daniel : have problems to implement your test tournament here

I don't know if I understood you correctly. Do you want to have the Frozen Bubble Tournament (FBT) WebApp hosted here on fb2010.forum.st? If that is the case, it would not be possible, as it was done using the CherryPy framework.

also colors not matching the forum ...

I can change that, but for that I will ask your assistance: save the complete HTML page of FBT, open it with a text editor, make the appropriate changes (in everything, including the group tables), then send the changed HTML to me by e-mail.

Now I will implement the manual creation of groups, so we can use the other proposed sets of rules in my system.

Btw, there is a tournament opened for participations (scroll down to see it), with a more defined set of rules, on http://asteca.yi.org:8080
It will be open until 19:30 UTC, first match will begin at 20:00 UTC.

[zero]

well, then I just put the link to test tournament ...

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