Re: Discuss Rules - FB Tourment 2010

[zero]

well, then I just put the link to test tournament ...

[zero]

maybe no more time today - but I will follow the results ...

also soon I post a statment here for rules : we mix some best item to one defined rules

[dmbasso]

Zero, I explained the fairness side of my rules in the "Little FAQ" at:
http://asteca.yi.org:8080

Only basic statistical knowledge (or, better yet, common sense) is required to validate my arguments... ;-)

But, as the human I am, I may be wrong in some point. If that is the case, please point me out what is it.

Btw, the best would be for you to participate in the next test tournament, to get the feeling of the method. I just opened one for 2010-01-30, which you can participate. Use it as a warm up for the real tournament. ;-)

[zero]

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Some players cant be present at proposed DATE & TIME --> and I think they will be more

date : 30.01.2010

time : 00.00-24.00 GMT +1

date : 31.01.2010

time : 00.00-24.00 GMT +1

no time : joOf, dee, karo

date : 01.02.2010

time : 20.00-24.00 GMT +1

no time : F5 -> birthday --> Congratulation !!! Happy Birthday from ALL OF US.

Solution :

Due to time condition like work, study, birthdays or other important things in our lifes we SPLIT the tournament into 3 stages. Therefore it depends on your group when you play your games and post results.

Stage 1 - PRE QUALIFY GROUPS should play as soon as possible
Stage 2 - DATE & TIME will be set up for ROUND 1 & 2 GROUPS when all PRE QUALIFY GROUPS play their games
Stage 2 - DATE & TIME will be set up for FINAL GROUPS when all ROUNDS before are played


PRE QUALIFY GROUPS are welcome to start playing as soon as possible

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GOOD LUCK & have FUN !!!!!

[zero]

THANK YOU ALL for supporting, your time & interest in make this tournament real in this "virtual world".

RULES are designed by zero using best ideas from dee, yowie, kuriosone, dmbasso.

I try to make it as transparent as it can be to all of you. First stage mostly base on my own rules but is also a mix from your ideas and posted propositions in that rules (Dee, Kuriosone). In the next stage Yowie's idea will be the best, so be patient until I post it there. Thx to dmbasso I hope to post results in his TEST ENVIRONMENT. If that is not possible, results will be posted in the forum.

I hope you will have fun. If any questions please write.

Also dmbasso's test tournament which base on random rules I see as a future solution which can replace designed rules with automation.

GOOD LUCK & have FUN

[KuriOSone]

i could have a few difficult for saturday, but i'll try to be online as soon and long as possible. btw, my question is:
How i'll know the server where my group will join to play? will u publish that in the forum or in the dmbasso space? or the groupleader will comunicate it to each one?

thanks for your patience, and for your great job, zero!

[dmbasso]

Hi people, I'm here just to write a little note on my current status. I was intending to make my system more flexible to other kinds of rules, but "real-life" stroke me. As some of you already know, in about 10 days I am moving from Brazil to Portugal. Today I had a work meeting to define some final things I must do before leaving my current organization (I'm CTO of an association that represents 61 local IT companies: www.trinopolo.com.br ) and, needless to say, my procrastination time just vanished.

In summary, my tournament server will stay the same for about a month (I guess), before I can get the time to make any modification.

But I don't think it will really be needed for the other types of rules, as this forum can hold all the necessary information about the progress of the tournament.

Also dmbasso's test tournament which base on random rules[...]

Just a little correction: the rules are pretty well defined and simple, it is the groups that are random.

Currently we have 8 players in the "2010-01-30 Let's keep testing! :-)" tournament, you should participate zero.

[zero]

Of course i also thanks the administrator for all his efforts for the site and the tournament (i'm really pleased to be a member of this community, also if i'm not as present as others.

thx KuriOSone

Im not a programmer but first time in my life an administrator of a forum & very interested in this Technology & Development which will help me in real life. So I took some time for new challenge and begin to study this on an real example like this Forum which will end with some fun I hope. Im really positive surprised that I learned so fast and thatfore but also thx to all participants its possible to make it truth.

Good Luck In Tournament

[zero]

i could have a few difficult for saturday, but i'll try to be online as soon and long as possible.

lets start the PRE-QUALIFY-GROUPS at now directly, until I got an respond from dmbasso if its possible to post results on his 'space'.

btw, my question is:

How i'll know the server where my group will join to play? will u publish that in the forum or in the dmbasso space? or the groupleader will comunicate it to each one?

i think best idea is to ask groupleaders to meet all that players who are in your group at one place at one time ...

thanks for your patience, and for your great job, zero!

thank you too

[zero]

But I don't think it will really be needed for the other types of rules, as this forum can hold all the necessary information about the progress of the tournament.

So its not possible to post results into your server ?

Also dmbasso's test tournament which base on random rules[...]

Just a little correction: the rules are pretty well defined and simple, it is the groups that are random.

It means its not possible to replace random groups with this static defined groups ?

Currently we have 8 players in the "2010-01-30 Let's keep testing! :-)" tournament, you should participate zero.

ohh, I took part on first or second test, but no information there now
but if time I will be in the 3rd, sure

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btw, as I discuss this case with some players on FB I strongly beliv your way of thinking is great for the next tournament. At now I want to make a tournament with rules created by different players itself and mix them in one defined rules. I know that your interest growth so much, which im happy about, but in fact you try to create your own tournament. (I mean if now we would use your rules - my work here would be for nothing)

Its great idea to create your own tournament but its better we share our knowledge together to not waste time & make it real to create ONE tournament. After that I propose to redirect all interested players to a new great tournament with 'random groups'

My private opinion : dont know if a tournament with 'random groups' is best solution but even that I think yours should replace this tournament here (with its prehistorical rules) in future because it works automatically due to your programmer skills !!! great work.

[Yowie]

Thanks zero for creating rules and all the other work around it, i like rules you created it seems fair. I suggest that you create one thread for each group where they can discuss date and so, i think it will be the easiest way how to communicate with every one in one group.

And one detail to the rules, maybe it could be nice that winner of one round will get some bonus for winning for example one point, because now it is like playing with limit 25 or similar and you are not much motivated to win. Just an idea

[Dee]

Im not a programmer but first time in my life an administrator of a forum & very interested in this Technology & Development which will help me in real life. So I took some time for new challenge and begin to study this on an real example like this Forum which will end with some fun I hope. Im really positive surprised that I learned so fast and thatfore but also thx to all participants its possible to make it truth.

Good Luck In Tournament

That, i did not expect from the way you handled this forum.
I am not a forum person either, but i really didn't think that you were a rookie at forum administration. Well done and thx zero.

[zero]

Thank you all for warm words - its cold at the moment in this country I live ))

[zero]

I suggest that you create one thread for each group where they can discuss date and so, i think it will be the easiest way how to communicate with every one in one group.

another great idea - maybe I mix it in the results thread, then all players from one group can communicate on all things.

... maybe it could be nice that winner of one round will get some bonus for winning ...

great idea, also mentioned by Silke, but there is not enough time for changes, therefore to ensure start of this tournament we should begin.

[urigallu]

Rules of final group rules could be in due to round 1 rules, but with a reversed system to kick worst player out and other continue:

e.g. 5 player 1 round with limit 5 (limit should always set to 5, that avoid errors), and worst is out.
The better 4 players continue with 2 rounds, to increase suspense. All victories are added up (see pre qualifying), worst will be kicked out.
...and so on...
Last 2 Players play 4 rounds...Winner!
So the Winner need to play 10 Rounds!

To make it more exiting, the 5 players could also start with 2 rounds; the 4 better players with 3 rounds ... and subsequently the last 2 players with 5 rounds. Winner need to play 14 rounds!
Further elongation via start with 3 rounds and final in 6 result in 19 games for the winner and could be too long!

To make this system softer, 5, 4 and 3 player could play 3 rounds and final with 3 or 5, that winner needs 12 or 14 rounds!
Finally we could count/add-up all victories in this final group, to get exclude some blackouts of good plaers!

[urigallu]

In our group f5 won one match and had in sum 12 victories!
I did not win a match, but have 15 victories!

Who is better?

OK, it's a prequalifying and rules are writen for this time!

=>
May be the prequalifying the number of catched matches are missing in the rules, as 2nd criteria after the victories, if victories are equal! So some duel could be avoided! And it is a good fine tune for ranking, if first two players have same number of victories and have to be set in next round! The other order of matches and victories is for the prequalifying god, cause this should have another character! May be we can add for the next tournament in the prequalifying!

=>
In 2nd and 3rd stage, the matches must be enhanced, like you did in rules for round 1 groups. This should be also in round 2 and final. And the sum of victories should be 2nd criteria for 2nd and 3rd stage, if needed (I am not sure)!

[Dee]

In our group f5 won one match and had in sum 12 victories!
I did not win a match, but have 15 victories!

Who is better?

I agree. Maybe a constant for each rank can be set.
I mean 5 for the winning player, 4 for the second one, 3 for third, and so on...

If we take group A game as an example :
Our results are such :
f5 5,1,1,1,1,3 = 11
urigallu 3,3,2,4,3,0 = 15
dee 2,5,3,1,4,5 = 20
nick 1,2,5,5,5,3 = 21
michal 1,2,1,1,1,1 = 7

Therefore our points would be;
match 1 :
f5 25 pts (5x5), urigallu 12 pts (4x3), dee 4 pts (3x2), nick 2pts (2x1), michal 2 pts (2x1)
match 2:
dee 25 (5x5), urigallu 4x3, nick (3x2), michal (3x2), f5 (1x1)
match 3:
nick (5x5) , dee (4x3), urigallu (3x2), f5 (2x1), michal (2x1)
match 4 :
nick (5x5) , urigallu (4x4), dee (3x1), f5 (3x1), michal (3x1)
match 5 :
nick (5x5) , dee (4x4), urigallu (3x3), f5 (2x1), michal (2x1)
match 6:
dee (5x5), nick (4x3), f5 (4x3), michal (3x1), urigallu (2x0?)

f5 : 25+1+2+3+2+12 = 45 pts
urigallu : 12+12+6+16+9+0? = 55 pts
dee : 6+25+12+3+16+25 = 87 pts
nick : 2+6+25+25+25+12 = 95 pts
michal : 2+6+2+3+2+3 = 18 pts

I counted the tie numbers as bigger ranked. Meaning, if the last two players in a match got 1 point each they are counted as the fouth ones of the match and got 2 constant as 2x1.

Hmm, again your point is bigger then f5's point. This did not work i guess


Ps. It is 03:35 am here. there are probably some calculating etc. problems above. i did not check them twice. it was just to give an example to my suggestion. thx for your understanding in advance. I hope i could explain it well.

[urigallu]

DEE: The point idea is great

I agree. Maybe a constant for each rank can be set.
I mean 5 for the winning player, 4 for the second one, 3 for third, and so on...

If we take group A game as an example :
Our results are such :
f5 5,1,1,1,1,3 = 11
urigallu 3,3,2,4,3,0 = 15
dee 2,5,3,1,4,5 = 20
nick 1,2,5,5,5,3 = 21
michal 1,2,1,1,1,1 = 7

I counted the tie numbers as bigger ranked. Meaning, if the last two players in a match got 1 point each they are counted as the fouth ones of the match and got 2 constant as 2x1.

These points used as 3rd criteria (prequalifying: after victories and won matches) would help for ranking of all groups.
Esier is the use direct of points without multiplication would be like this in Group A:
match 1 :
f5 (5), urigallu (4), dee (3), nick (2), michal (2)
match 2:
dee (5), urigallu (4), nick (3), michal (3), f5 (1)
match 3:
nick (5) , dee (4), urigallu (3), f5 (2), michal (2)
match 4 :
nick (5) , urigallu (4), dee (3), f5 (3), michal (3)
match 5 :
nick (5) , dee (4), urigallu (3), f5 (2), michal (2)
match 6:
dee (5), nick (4), f5 (4), michal (2), urigallu (1)

f5 : 5+1+2+3+2+4 = 17 pts
urigallu : 4+4+3+4+3+1 = 19 pts
dee : 3+5+4+3+4+5 = 24 pts
nick : 2+3+5+5+5+4 = 24 pts
michal : 2+3+2+3+2+2= 14 pts

uri and f5 result in some the order, but nick and dee have same points!


with multipling as dee did and correction of last two positions in match 6 is a very good idea:
match 6:
dee (5x5), nick (4x3), f5 (4x3), michal (2x1), urigallu (1x0)

f5 : 25+1+2+3+2+12 = 45 pts
urigallu : 12+12+6+16+9+0 = 55 pts
dee : 6+25+12+3+16+25 = 87 pts
nick : 2+6+25+25+25+12 = 95 pts
michal : 2+6+2+3+2+2 = 17 pts

I suggest to use one of these point systems as 3rd criteria for ranking. Kicked out players of all groups in stage 2 and 3 could also ranked: 1st matches, 2nd victories, 3rd points (one or both systems)

[zero]

uri + dee : i agree with you on both ideas, but who will take care of this point system ? I cant because no more time & dont really understand this, will one of you do that and post results for every group ?

[urigallu]

Something like that i can poste here:

nick 21 victoris [12 55 53] 3 matches 24 points [23 55 54] 95 ∑vi·po [2 6 25 25 25 12]
dee 20 victoris [25 31 45] 2 matches 24 points [35 43 45] 87 ∑vi·po [6 25 12 3 16 25]
urigallu 15 victoris [33 24 30] 0 matches 19 points [44 34 31] 55 ∑vi·po [12 12 6 16 9 0]
f5 12 victoris [51 11 13] 1 matches 17 points [51 23 24] 45 ∑vi·po [25 1 2 3 2 12]
michal 7 victoris [12 11 11] 0 matches 14 points [23 23 22] 17 ∑vi·po [2 6 2 3 2 2]

The original formate is reduced, that it fits on one site!

I made it with OpOf-calc, cause I am not a programmer. I could fill the victories in, which are posted here. BUT the points from 1-4 I have to manually, cause the system, that players with same number of victories share places and points and worse players get the over(over)next lower point! Sorry, but I am to stupid to do that: Therefore I need good ideas or help from experts, cause I am not at work and have no admin or programmer in my flat. If somebody is able AND interested to create the points in OpOf-calc OR all of that in code, he should post here. Thanks. Otherwise it could take more time for rankings and cause of that following groups 1, because in the one ranking for 18 qualified players some of them could have same number of victories. Is that system with 2nd (matches) and 3rd criteria o.k.?
And by the way should the points or multiplicative from victories and points the 3rd criteria, if we need, but who knows now!

Fuck the formation is gone! Zero is it o.k. like this or what could I do better!

[zero]

As it appears noone can do this I think we can use this idea to next tournament. Also deadline is close & first group completed so no changes to rules definition. But I made some thoughts to Bonus System means counting matches by points then every match won to 5, give bonus e.g. plus 5 points.

Maybe + or * but still I cant find a solution to this one. But what is 3rd criteria for you ? Stage 2 - Round 1 ,2 or both ???

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